Today I purchased a digital level that can produce an audible tone when level or matching a programmed slope. I found it convenient enough to simply read the digital screen for the slope. The display can be configured to read in degrees, inches/ft, or percentage. I also procured some velcro tape from my mom, and used that to affix the level to the pipe. Then I was free to adjust the height of the pipe until just right, and nail the hanger in place.
Hanging pipe
I'm using plastic strapping, also known as plastic plumber's tape. It's a perforated strapping with holes for driving nails or screws through. I found that the pipes don't fully stretch out the strapping loop, and so they will move down some if you press down on the pipe. I've been attaching the strapping in a "U" shape, with the pipe resting in the center - perhaps changing that to a "d" shape would keep the vertical portion taught? Then again, as the pipework is welded together, it acquires a preferred position which tends not to align with where it needs to go, and I suppose this contributes to the lack of stretched strapping. I plan to supplement the straps with a few well-placed 2x4s braced against the pipe to direct it into proper position.
Pipe orientation
After cutting a section of pipe, I lay it on a nice and flat area of the floor. Two hubbed fittings are temporarily attached to the ends, which helps keep the pipe from rotating. I took a scrap block and placed a pen on top, with its point protruding from the block's edge. Then i slide the block/pen along the pipe at each end, on the same side, creating a longitudinal reference line at the same angle on both ends.
Then I pop off the fittings and bring the pipe to the pipework being assembled. The existing hub and the pipe end are primed and cemented. Then, when inserting them together, I am sure to align the pen mark with a reference mark on the fitting. Some fittings have reference ticks on the hubs at every 45 degrees. Others only have two lines where the piece was welded together during manufacture I think. In either case, the lines are at specific orientations of the fitting - pointing straight down, up, left, right.. Using these lines & the lines on the pipe when connecting fittings, I am assured the fittings are aligned exactly as they should be relative to each other. Sometimes I have to add a reference mark on a hub that only has weld lines - this is easy, just place it against a hub with reference marks.
Play
I have found the pipework once glued together has quite a bit of play in that it can be moved quite a ways from where it wants to sit. I know any undue stress is more likely to cause a leak, so we'll see eventually when I test the system if I was too rough with any sections. For now I'm just moving along.
Showing posts with label plumbing. Show all posts
Showing posts with label plumbing. Show all posts
Sunday, November 28, 2010
dwv plumbing
Yesterday, I started gluing together PVC pipes for the DWV system. This is the first time doing this, so things are moving slowly as I determine how best to do things and develop methods.
Attaching a pipe
From what I gather, typically some portion of the system is fixed into place with strapping or whatever it takes. Let's say a fitting is in place. Then the connecting pipe has one end placed into the fixed fitting, and the other end will be placed at the proper elevation such that the pipe is at a proper slope. This involves:
A. Supporting the pipe
B. Checking the slope of the pipe
These must be performed at the same time. For example:
1. Temporarily hang the pipe roughly where it should be
2. Check the slope
3. Adjust the hanger
4. Check again - if it's good enough, the support is correct
5. Go to step 3
This process is repeated as each pipe is attached, so we want to optimize it. That is, check the slope quickly, and adjust the hanger quickly.
Yesterday, I was running a tape measure vertically from the bottom of the pipe, and reading where my horizontal laser level crossed the tape. This would give a level reading from the reference laser. Given the length of the pipe, I can calculate how much the elevation should change, add/subtract that amount, and adjust the other end of the pipe until it meets that reading.
It's fast putting up the tape and reading the elevation. But it's slow to calculate the change in elevation to meet slope, it's confusing determining whether to add or subtract. It sounds simple, but seriously that was slow and confusing.
Today I'm going to try taking my bubble levels and taping on shims for the proper slope so when placed against the pipe it reads level. This is equivalent to using a plumber's level and I think this is how it's typically done. So now checking the level is simply placing the level against the bottom of the pipe and checking the bubble. This is a little slower than just reading elevation from the tape, but it's faster in that I don't have to calculate stuff. If I had a level that produced noise when it was level, I could strap it to the pipe say with velcro, and adjust it by hand just once.. I'll have to look into this.
Attaching a fitting
Attaching fittings is different from pipe, in that their relative orientation is important. For example, take a 90-degree bend. With one end attached to the pipe, the other end can swing around to point in any direction perpendicular to the slope of the pipe. Of course, it has a specific direction in which we want it to point, but the problem is getting it oriented precisely where it should go. Once it's glued, it's not moving.
This is a more difficult problem, and I'm still in the process of determining how to do this best. I believe this is achieved by working your way from fixed points (like where you drop from above at a lavatory/water closet drain) and hanging pipe to the junction, cut to proper length with accurate premeasurement & calculation. With these pipes glued into place and hanging where they should go, the fitting can be glued into place and will naturally be oriented in only one way. The difficulty with this idea is that the pipes all have play in them, so they need to be affixed to proper orientation as well as possible before doing this (that is, prevent the pipe & its attached fittings from rotating about the pipe's longitudinal axis.)
In my design, and I'd imagine most designs, the fittings all connect at standard orientations. That is, either in-line or at 45 or 90 degree angles to previous fittings. Unfortunately, the pipes between the fittings have no longitudinal reference lines, so you can't simply align two reference marks on the fittings to ensure they are at exact relative angles. The lack of these reference lines on the pipes seems like the most bone-headed missing feature of a manufactured product I've come across in construction so far. Unless these pipes tend to somewhat twist along their longitudinal axis after manufacture, then I see no reason why they don't paint/print one or more lines down the pipe for plumbers to use as a reference line.. That would be immensely useful. I'm considering securing the pipe on a flat surface and making my own reference marks at ends of the cut sections of pipe to orient fittings when gluing..
It would be easiest to just dry-fit everything into place, draw reference marks between pieces, then take it apart, glue together, and rejoin. In fact, many online references say to do this. Which is stupid. You can't dry-fit pieces of PVC together, they don't fully seat until you prime & glue them. That technique might work with other types of pipe that you can fully seat before welding together. And it could work with PVC if you only had a simple configuration with large tolerances.
This could be explained better with step-by-step pictures, but I'm trying to figure this out, and trying to get work done, not trying to teach you stuff! OK I'm going to go try this all out now..
Hopefully it will warm up!
Attaching a pipe
From what I gather, typically some portion of the system is fixed into place with strapping or whatever it takes. Let's say a fitting is in place. Then the connecting pipe has one end placed into the fixed fitting, and the other end will be placed at the proper elevation such that the pipe is at a proper slope. This involves:
A. Supporting the pipe
B. Checking the slope of the pipe
These must be performed at the same time. For example:
1. Temporarily hang the pipe roughly where it should be
2. Check the slope
3. Adjust the hanger
4. Check again - if it's good enough, the support is correct
5. Go to step 3
This process is repeated as each pipe is attached, so we want to optimize it. That is, check the slope quickly, and adjust the hanger quickly.
Yesterday, I was running a tape measure vertically from the bottom of the pipe, and reading where my horizontal laser level crossed the tape. This would give a level reading from the reference laser. Given the length of the pipe, I can calculate how much the elevation should change, add/subtract that amount, and adjust the other end of the pipe until it meets that reading.
It's fast putting up the tape and reading the elevation. But it's slow to calculate the change in elevation to meet slope, it's confusing determining whether to add or subtract. It sounds simple, but seriously that was slow and confusing.
Today I'm going to try taking my bubble levels and taping on shims for the proper slope so when placed against the pipe it reads level. This is equivalent to using a plumber's level and I think this is how it's typically done. So now checking the level is simply placing the level against the bottom of the pipe and checking the bubble. This is a little slower than just reading elevation from the tape, but it's faster in that I don't have to calculate stuff. If I had a level that produced noise when it was level, I could strap it to the pipe say with velcro, and adjust it by hand just once.. I'll have to look into this.
Attaching a fitting
Attaching fittings is different from pipe, in that their relative orientation is important. For example, take a 90-degree bend. With one end attached to the pipe, the other end can swing around to point in any direction perpendicular to the slope of the pipe. Of course, it has a specific direction in which we want it to point, but the problem is getting it oriented precisely where it should go. Once it's glued, it's not moving.
This is a more difficult problem, and I'm still in the process of determining how to do this best. I believe this is achieved by working your way from fixed points (like where you drop from above at a lavatory/water closet drain) and hanging pipe to the junction, cut to proper length with accurate premeasurement & calculation. With these pipes glued into place and hanging where they should go, the fitting can be glued into place and will naturally be oriented in only one way. The difficulty with this idea is that the pipes all have play in them, so they need to be affixed to proper orientation as well as possible before doing this (that is, prevent the pipe & its attached fittings from rotating about the pipe's longitudinal axis.)
In my design, and I'd imagine most designs, the fittings all connect at standard orientations. That is, either in-line or at 45 or 90 degree angles to previous fittings. Unfortunately, the pipes between the fittings have no longitudinal reference lines, so you can't simply align two reference marks on the fittings to ensure they are at exact relative angles. The lack of these reference lines on the pipes seems like the most bone-headed missing feature of a manufactured product I've come across in construction so far. Unless these pipes tend to somewhat twist along their longitudinal axis after manufacture, then I see no reason why they don't paint/print one or more lines down the pipe for plumbers to use as a reference line.. That would be immensely useful. I'm considering securing the pipe on a flat surface and making my own reference marks at ends of the cut sections of pipe to orient fittings when gluing..
It would be easiest to just dry-fit everything into place, draw reference marks between pieces, then take it apart, glue together, and rejoin. In fact, many online references say to do this. Which is stupid. You can't dry-fit pieces of PVC together, they don't fully seat until you prime & glue them. That technique might work with other types of pipe that you can fully seat before welding together. And it could work with PVC if you only had a simple configuration with large tolerances.
This could be explained better with step-by-step pictures, but I'm trying to figure this out, and trying to get work done, not trying to teach you stuff! OK I'm going to go try this all out now..
Hopefully it will warm up!
Sunday, October 3, 2010
beams, boxes, stops and flanges
yesterday, i had a true 'holy shit' moment.. that was jacking up the girder just a hair to trim a shim beneath it, as there's a slight hump in the living room floor above it.
i brought my car jack into the crawlspace, set a 4x4 post between it and the girder, ensured it was perfectly plumb and very slowly and slightly lifted the beam.. just enough so the existing shim would slide out. i heard little creaks scattered around the floor joists.. and once the shim was removed, i thought, "holy shit, the living room is being held up by a car jack" hehe
so i trimmed about 1/8" from the shim and afterward the floor still has a slight hump. further examination revealed there is a floor joist that is slightly wider than the others right there.. about 1/8" wider. i can't correct that without removing the floor sheathing and planing/replacing the joist.. which is alot of work. so the hump is seemingly small, i'm going to see if i can get by with it. if it's a problem during flooring installation, i'll deal with it then (plane it, that is.)
the past few days i've been buying little things i need for the electrical and plumbing. i've nailed up the electrical boxes for switches. the boxes have little nubs on the side to space the front of the box for drywall. turns out the nubs are 3/8", and the drywall will be 1/2". this is fine by code, though i wonder if that 1/8" will make it difficult for the cover plate to seat around the outlet device (switch/receptacle) properly. i held each box spaced at about 1/2" against the stud while nailing, so we'll find out eventually..
i bought most of the supply stops for under the sinks & toilet from home depot, as they had nice looking & priced units meeting my connection needs. however they didn't have a dual outlet piece i want for the dishwasher to connect under the kitchen sink, so i found one at lowes, albeit with a slightly different shutoff knob. i got a matching single outlet for the cold supply under the sink. i'm still deciding if i'll bring those supplies through the wall or the floor under the kitchen sink, as that's the only spot against an exterior insulated wall. if i come through the floor i'll need to find a nice sleeve for each supply line between the floor and the stop.
i've purchased the water closet flanges but haven't drilled the holes through the floor yet. i spent some time looking at the options available, attempting to determine which connection configuration would be optimal in both performance and ease & practicality of installation. the drain lines are all 3", and i certainly didn't want any reduction of the inside of the pipe less than 3". there's a flange that connects inside of a 4" pipe, then you'd use a reducer below from 4 to 3 inch (the only drain reduction allowed by code is 4 to 3 at a water closet connection.)
however, i can't help thinking the point of reduction there is a possible, most likely point of constriction and clog. i'd rather if there's any possible point of constriction or clog that must be present, have it right at the flange for ease of cleaning/clearing by a plumber. i want to check if there's a flange that allows a 3" pipe to connect directly without any inside diameter reduction.. that is, the flange has a 3" hub on its underside. i believe i saw some previously but discounted them, as i didn't like having a reverse-direction hub on the closet connection.. thing is, the reverse-direction hub is going to occur all over the drain line.. so it's silly to try & avoid it at one of the easiest places in the drain system to access.
so i'll have to double check that flange! also, i'm using stainless-steel flanges, as stainless won't rust and metal won't crack so easily as all-pvc can when the toilet is tightened down, either during initial installation or in the future.
mm enough rambling for now, i could go on for hours.. no, really i could.. so many details..
i brought my car jack into the crawlspace, set a 4x4 post between it and the girder, ensured it was perfectly plumb and very slowly and slightly lifted the beam.. just enough so the existing shim would slide out. i heard little creaks scattered around the floor joists.. and once the shim was removed, i thought, "holy shit, the living room is being held up by a car jack" hehe
so i trimmed about 1/8" from the shim and afterward the floor still has a slight hump. further examination revealed there is a floor joist that is slightly wider than the others right there.. about 1/8" wider. i can't correct that without removing the floor sheathing and planing/replacing the joist.. which is alot of work. so the hump is seemingly small, i'm going to see if i can get by with it. if it's a problem during flooring installation, i'll deal with it then (plane it, that is.)
the past few days i've been buying little things i need for the electrical and plumbing. i've nailed up the electrical boxes for switches. the boxes have little nubs on the side to space the front of the box for drywall. turns out the nubs are 3/8", and the drywall will be 1/2". this is fine by code, though i wonder if that 1/8" will make it difficult for the cover plate to seat around the outlet device (switch/receptacle) properly. i held each box spaced at about 1/2" against the stud while nailing, so we'll find out eventually..
i bought most of the supply stops for under the sinks & toilet from home depot, as they had nice looking & priced units meeting my connection needs. however they didn't have a dual outlet piece i want for the dishwasher to connect under the kitchen sink, so i found one at lowes, albeit with a slightly different shutoff knob. i got a matching single outlet for the cold supply under the sink. i'm still deciding if i'll bring those supplies through the wall or the floor under the kitchen sink, as that's the only spot against an exterior insulated wall. if i come through the floor i'll need to find a nice sleeve for each supply line between the floor and the stop.
i've purchased the water closet flanges but haven't drilled the holes through the floor yet. i spent some time looking at the options available, attempting to determine which connection configuration would be optimal in both performance and ease & practicality of installation. the drain lines are all 3", and i certainly didn't want any reduction of the inside of the pipe less than 3". there's a flange that connects inside of a 4" pipe, then you'd use a reducer below from 4 to 3 inch (the only drain reduction allowed by code is 4 to 3 at a water closet connection.)
however, i can't help thinking the point of reduction there is a possible, most likely point of constriction and clog. i'd rather if there's any possible point of constriction or clog that must be present, have it right at the flange for ease of cleaning/clearing by a plumber. i want to check if there's a flange that allows a 3" pipe to connect directly without any inside diameter reduction.. that is, the flange has a 3" hub on its underside. i believe i saw some previously but discounted them, as i didn't like having a reverse-direction hub on the closet connection.. thing is, the reverse-direction hub is going to occur all over the drain line.. so it's silly to try & avoid it at one of the easiest places in the drain system to access.
so i'll have to double check that flange! also, i'm using stainless-steel flanges, as stainless won't rust and metal won't crack so easily as all-pvc can when the toilet is tightened down, either during initial installation or in the future.
mm enough rambling for now, i could go on for hours.. no, really i could.. so many details..
Thursday, September 23, 2010
plumbing prep
received the plumbing permit from the county yesterday - $100. i've been working out the details of supply pipe materials & layout, and DWV layout & fittings.
supply pipe will be pex, utilizing what's known as the 'home run' layout method. essentially, each fixture is fed by a dedicated line from a central manifold. this minimizes joints in the system - potential points of leaks, and points of pressure loss. fewer fittings allows a smaller diameter pipe, which reduces time & volume of water wasted waiting for hot water.
there are many options for stubbing out pex. i am utilizing some special bend fittings which allow the pex to run directly out of the wall, without any fittings inside the wall. stop valves attach directly to the pipe.. i'm also utilizing 3/8 lines throughout most of the system to minimize hot water wait times. cold lines will match to provide similar pressure drops to the hot water. the only 1/2 lines in my design are for the tub and sillcocks.
i was hoping to purchase the pex material from lowes, as they have a decent selection and a local source would be useful for any additional material needs i might have. some online anecdotes suggest trouble when mixing fittings and pipe from different manufacturers. unfortunately, lowes doesn't stock 3/8 coil pipe nor manifolds, so i must look elsewhere. also, a little digging uncovered the astm standard for crimp fittings on pex pipe - astm f876 & astm f877 & astm 1807. fittings & pipe meeting the standards should be physically compatible. so i'll be purchasing materials both online & locally.
i decided on using crimp ring connections for pex as these are commonly available and inexpensive. another connection system by wirsbo expands the pipe to fit around fittings, then the pipe retracts back to a tight fit within a few seconds. this is likely the fastest install method, and many people argue its the most dependable connection. however, the tools and materials are more expensive - and i've got a heavy cost limit now. i don't think the time saved by this tool on this job alone would justify the extra cost.
next on my agenda is to detail the dwv sufficiently to allow purchasing the PVC pipe & fittings i'll need. after that, i also have a few items on my agenda before actually beginning installation of pipework.
supply pipe will be pex, utilizing what's known as the 'home run' layout method. essentially, each fixture is fed by a dedicated line from a central manifold. this minimizes joints in the system - potential points of leaks, and points of pressure loss. fewer fittings allows a smaller diameter pipe, which reduces time & volume of water wasted waiting for hot water.
there are many options for stubbing out pex. i am utilizing some special bend fittings which allow the pex to run directly out of the wall, without any fittings inside the wall. stop valves attach directly to the pipe.. i'm also utilizing 3/8 lines throughout most of the system to minimize hot water wait times. cold lines will match to provide similar pressure drops to the hot water. the only 1/2 lines in my design are for the tub and sillcocks.
i was hoping to purchase the pex material from lowes, as they have a decent selection and a local source would be useful for any additional material needs i might have. some online anecdotes suggest trouble when mixing fittings and pipe from different manufacturers. unfortunately, lowes doesn't stock 3/8 coil pipe nor manifolds, so i must look elsewhere. also, a little digging uncovered the astm standard for crimp fittings on pex pipe - astm f876 & astm f877 & astm 1807. fittings & pipe meeting the standards should be physically compatible. so i'll be purchasing materials both online & locally.
i decided on using crimp ring connections for pex as these are commonly available and inexpensive. another connection system by wirsbo expands the pipe to fit around fittings, then the pipe retracts back to a tight fit within a few seconds. this is likely the fastest install method, and many people argue its the most dependable connection. however, the tools and materials are more expensive - and i've got a heavy cost limit now. i don't think the time saved by this tool on this job alone would justify the extra cost.
next on my agenda is to detail the dwv sufficiently to allow purchasing the PVC pipe & fittings i'll need. after that, i also have a few items on my agenda before actually beginning installation of pipework.
Monday, June 14, 2010
the blogging mood
haven't been in the blogging mood lately, but here's a quick update mostly for my records. i finally began covering the rest of the foundation walls with the surface bond cement stucco at the end of last week. i plan to finish that up today.
i've tried a few different techniques of application. on the rear wall, katie & i went from end to end, putting up sufficient coverage to embed and cover the mesh while applying some kind of appealing texture with a hand trowel (a 6" drywall knife, actually.) this used a bunch of compound and left a few areas with mesh impressions apparent.
the north wall was applied in two coats. first, a light covering to just embed the mesh was applied with the 6" knife. i didn't cover all areas, just enough that i felt would restrict the mesh from movement. then after a day of curing, i came back and coated over it with a wide trowel. this worked somewhat, but the areas not covered by the initial coat still showed the mesh through the second coat.
half of the west wall was also applied in two coats. the first coat was covered using the wide trowel for a thin, consistent embedment of the entire mesh. tight spots at corners and the top of the wall were touched up with the 6" drywall knife. after a day, i came back with the wide trowel again and ran the top coat. the first coat was applied in the vertical direction; the second coat in the horizontal. this technique works best, giving good results with minimal time spent.
some nuance of the technique. be sure the mix is well mixed. use plenty of water to ensure a wet mix that will apply easily in thin layers, but still thick enough that it wont just flow away. i haven't managed to add too much water so far. wide trowel in left hand, load it up with the knife in the right hand. cut compound away from inch or so from ends of trowel. drop the knife and put the wide trowel in the right hand, while keeping it balanced so you don't drop the load. apply it to the wall, start low and pull it upward, covering the area you want. if second coat, then smooth out that application with horizontal strokes. key in both coats is to knock down any spots that protrude from the plane; keep it smooth.
anyway.
earlier in the week, before the foundation, i ran sleeves through the wall for the water and sewer. the water line is 3/4" and the sewer line is 4". i ran 2" and 6" PVC sleeves through the wall, they are about 11 1/4" long, slightly protruding from both the inside and outside planes of the wall. i plan to run 1" polyethylene for the water line and 4" PVC for the sewer line, both from the street through the sleeves. the sewer will run with a proper slope from the street to just before the wall, where it will turn upward with two 1/8th bends, then a wye will split one direction off through the wall and the other will continue to the surface for a cleanout just outside the wall.
the plan is to get the siding and all exterior done before finishing the water/sewer runs. i have a rough schedule of the progress of the work i want to accomplish over the next 5 1/2 months and i'll try best to keep that schedule, but i'm already falling behind for this month. so much work so little time!
i also developed a good technique for organizing my task lists. currently many of the tasks ahead of me have lots of required, dependent tasks, so there are many required orders in which to perform things. simple lists don't keep this properly organized, but i found an arrow-based drawing on my whiteboard works well. i'll take a pic of it when i find my camera to show you what i mean.
ok i'm out.
i've tried a few different techniques of application. on the rear wall, katie & i went from end to end, putting up sufficient coverage to embed and cover the mesh while applying some kind of appealing texture with a hand trowel (a 6" drywall knife, actually.) this used a bunch of compound and left a few areas with mesh impressions apparent.
the north wall was applied in two coats. first, a light covering to just embed the mesh was applied with the 6" knife. i didn't cover all areas, just enough that i felt would restrict the mesh from movement. then after a day of curing, i came back and coated over it with a wide trowel. this worked somewhat, but the areas not covered by the initial coat still showed the mesh through the second coat.
half of the west wall was also applied in two coats. the first coat was covered using the wide trowel for a thin, consistent embedment of the entire mesh. tight spots at corners and the top of the wall were touched up with the 6" drywall knife. after a day, i came back with the wide trowel again and ran the top coat. the first coat was applied in the vertical direction; the second coat in the horizontal. this technique works best, giving good results with minimal time spent.
some nuance of the technique. be sure the mix is well mixed. use plenty of water to ensure a wet mix that will apply easily in thin layers, but still thick enough that it wont just flow away. i haven't managed to add too much water so far. wide trowel in left hand, load it up with the knife in the right hand. cut compound away from inch or so from ends of trowel. drop the knife and put the wide trowel in the right hand, while keeping it balanced so you don't drop the load. apply it to the wall, start low and pull it upward, covering the area you want. if second coat, then smooth out that application with horizontal strokes. key in both coats is to knock down any spots that protrude from the plane; keep it smooth.
anyway.
earlier in the week, before the foundation, i ran sleeves through the wall for the water and sewer. the water line is 3/4" and the sewer line is 4". i ran 2" and 6" PVC sleeves through the wall, they are about 11 1/4" long, slightly protruding from both the inside and outside planes of the wall. i plan to run 1" polyethylene for the water line and 4" PVC for the sewer line, both from the street through the sleeves. the sewer will run with a proper slope from the street to just before the wall, where it will turn upward with two 1/8th bends, then a wye will split one direction off through the wall and the other will continue to the surface for a cleanout just outside the wall.
the plan is to get the siding and all exterior done before finishing the water/sewer runs. i have a rough schedule of the progress of the work i want to accomplish over the next 5 1/2 months and i'll try best to keep that schedule, but i'm already falling behind for this month. so much work so little time!
i also developed a good technique for organizing my task lists. currently many of the tasks ahead of me have lots of required, dependent tasks, so there are many required orders in which to perform things. simple lists don't keep this properly organized, but i found an arrow-based drawing on my whiteboard works well. i'll take a pic of it when i find my camera to show you what i mean.
ok i'm out.
Monday, May 31, 2010
sillcocky
i went shopping at lowes and home depot today and picked up a pair of frost-proof sillcocks. they are woodfords, from lowes at around 23 bucks each. i did a little reading afterward and am reevaluating this purchase.
the idea of a frost-proof sillcock is that it won't get destroyed in the winter when temperatures go below freezing. with a normal sillcock, the homeowner should shut off a valve inside, ahead of the bib in the supply line, remove the hose and then open the outside valve and let it drain. then don't use the spigot again until spring.
of course, the need arises sooner or later during winter and it gets used for something and the proper drainage procedure isn't followed. the faucet sits full of water and as it freezes the water expands and cracks the sillcock.
with a frost-proof sillcock, you don't need to shut off a valve inside the house in the fall. instead, you shut off the outside valve and you simply disconnect the hose and it will drain itself. the internal valve in the sillcock is actually located far back in the body, inside the insulated wall where temperatures are higher. all the water to the outside of that valve drains out toward the exterior. voila, no broken sillcock.
of course, the need arises sooner or later during winter and it gets used for something and the hose gets left attached. the faucet sits full of water because it can't drain and as it freezes the water expands and cracks the sillcock.
so how about that, you spent $25 instead of $5 on a frost-proof sillcock and it still cracked from freezing. sure, you could avoid it with proper procedure, but in that case you could just stick with the $5 sillcock and turn off the inside valves in the fall.
well, it turns out there are actual frost-proof sill cocks on the market. some will drain themselves even if you leave the hose attached to the spigot, such as woodford model 30. some have a pressure relief valve that relieves pressure when it escalates due to freezing water, such as woodford models 16 & 19. model 19 is essentially model 16 with a backflow preventer attached. a pair of model 19s is $89. a pair of model 30s is $107+s/h
there is also a device which can be attached to any standard spigot. it's a 'self-draining backflow preventer' which automatically drains when the water is shut off even with the hose attached. a pair of these is $25, but a pair of standard frost-proof sillcocks is also necessary (simply a valve with a recessed seat is necessary, no vacuum breaks etc required.)
i tend to be a cost-conscious consumer, so let's see. $89 for the model 19's, minus $25 for the backflow attachments, leaves $64 for a pair of basic, solid frost-proof sillcocks. let's see, a pair of quartermasters for $45 from home depot, or the pair i already have from lowes i paid $46 for.
hmm.. that's a $20 difference for the pair.. maybe i'll just order a pair of these backflow attachments. then i can wash my car in january without worry! haha!
the idea of a frost-proof sillcock is that it won't get destroyed in the winter when temperatures go below freezing. with a normal sillcock, the homeowner should shut off a valve inside, ahead of the bib in the supply line, remove the hose and then open the outside valve and let it drain. then don't use the spigot again until spring.
of course, the need arises sooner or later during winter and it gets used for something and the proper drainage procedure isn't followed. the faucet sits full of water and as it freezes the water expands and cracks the sillcock.
with a frost-proof sillcock, you don't need to shut off a valve inside the house in the fall. instead, you shut off the outside valve and you simply disconnect the hose and it will drain itself. the internal valve in the sillcock is actually located far back in the body, inside the insulated wall where temperatures are higher. all the water to the outside of that valve drains out toward the exterior. voila, no broken sillcock.
of course, the need arises sooner or later during winter and it gets used for something and the hose gets left attached. the faucet sits full of water because it can't drain and as it freezes the water expands and cracks the sillcock.
so how about that, you spent $25 instead of $5 on a frost-proof sillcock and it still cracked from freezing. sure, you could avoid it with proper procedure, but in that case you could just stick with the $5 sillcock and turn off the inside valves in the fall.
well, it turns out there are actual frost-proof sill cocks on the market. some will drain themselves even if you leave the hose attached to the spigot, such as woodford model 30. some have a pressure relief valve that relieves pressure when it escalates due to freezing water, such as woodford models 16 & 19. model 19 is essentially model 16 with a backflow preventer attached. a pair of model 19s is $89. a pair of model 30s is $107+s/h
there is also a device which can be attached to any standard spigot. it's a 'self-draining backflow preventer' which automatically drains when the water is shut off even with the hose attached. a pair of these is $25, but a pair of standard frost-proof sillcocks is also necessary (simply a valve with a recessed seat is necessary, no vacuum breaks etc required.)
i tend to be a cost-conscious consumer, so let's see. $89 for the model 19's, minus $25 for the backflow attachments, leaves $64 for a pair of basic, solid frost-proof sillcocks. let's see, a pair of quartermasters for $45 from home depot, or the pair i already have from lowes i paid $46 for.
hmm.. that's a $20 difference for the pair.. maybe i'll just order a pair of these backflow attachments. then i can wash my car in january without worry! haha!
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